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Recently, I have had about 20% of the searches on this site involve someone trying to find out about lying. These searches included: “pathological liar”, “BPD and Lying”, “why does bpd lie?”, etc. It seems one on the most difficult things for the non to accept is BPs lying. Here is a note I posted on WTO some time ago about lying – I think it still applies.
As for lying, I believe that all people lie (or are willing to lie) when the truth is too painful to be told – even if that feeling of pain is not based in reality. Do BPs lie more than other people? My short answer is “Yes”.
I think the main reason is because of the intense sense of shame that they feel. I have come to realize that shame is the core emotional component of BPD. I have also come to realize that many people mistake PTSD for BPD (although BOTH can be part of the mix,my wife has both components). In PTSD FEAR is the key emotional component. In depression, it is sadness. In Intermittent Explosive Disorder it is anger.
 When Hope is Not EnoughGet the Non-BPD book that is designed for staying and working on the relationship BPD is a “personality” disorder because shame is not a “primal”emotion – like fear, anger, joy, sadness, disgust and contempt. No,shame is an emotion evoked in relationship to other people’s senseof judgment. You can’t feel shameful without a sense that what you’re doing (or, in the case of BPD, what you ARE) is “wrong”.
All people have different capabilities for handling emotions. BPs seem to have a diminished capacity for handling theirs – and, since shame is key, they are more likely to “hide” the truth (even from themselves). In the case of lies, if they feel that the truth would reveal something shameful, they lie IMO. In the case of my wife, she lies if she feels that she will be judged for telling the truth.That is where the shame component arises. If she feels that I (or anyone) will judge her behavior (really, her feelings) as “wrong”or “bad”, she will likely lie, either by admission (actually sayingsomething that is not true) or omission (leaving out the truth). The deal seems to be that she feels the shame in telling the truth, that shame is painful (as it is for everyone) and to avoid that pain, she lies. In other words, her lies are all about protecting herself frompain and judgment (even self-judgment) and have nothing to do with me. It is not personal.
If avoidance of pain is considered “disassociation” (which in some cases avoidance of intense pain DOES cause real disassociation),then I think you could say that she “disassociates” from the painful truth.
On a final note, I also believe that this shame-sense is misplaced.They have nothing to FEEL ashamed of – sure, they do all kinds of “shameful” things, but only in relation to other people. If my wife cuts herself, she does so without shame and not to get other people’s attention. Still, at the core of her being is a sense ofshame – like she has a deep, dark secret she must protect – even though there’s no real secret there. I suspect this comes from the BP’s shaky sense of self. She will do anything (including lie) to protect what’s not even there.
A Daughter with BPD who Lies
This was my response on WTO to a woman who was very angry with her daughter for lying to her and for having friends over to her (the mother’s) house all night when the mother specifically prohibited it. The mother felt very manipulated and angry – she felt the daughter was disobeying her to hurt her. FYI, the daughter is 23 and was diagnosed with BPD when she was about 16.
Hi. Yes, I thought that your daughter was in a situation like that – around 21-25, diagnosed with BPD and once in a residential facility. The reason I asked those specific questions is that I have seen other young women in the exact situation as your daughter and acting exactly the same way. I could further speculate that your daughter has trouble keeping a job (even a very menial one), has difficulty getting up in the morning, smokes (or once did) or does (or did) rely on drugs or alcohol, etc. – typical BP behavior for young women her age.
I think I can help explain the motivation behind her actions. After you read this you can choose to believe me or not, but these comments are based on my experience with several BPs from a support group (a physical one) that I attended. I met many parents of BP daughters and spoke with them about their daughters behaviors and, after several weeks, their feelings. It took some time to see through the behaviors to the feelings. What I am giving you here is sort of a “short cut” to the underlying feelings of your BP daughter. It may be hard to believe at first, but I would encourage you to consider it carefully.
First of all, it totally stinks to have your daughter not heed your requests. It’s got to be extrememly frustrating to have a daughter who seems to sepcifically disobey you and lie to you on a daily basis. It also must be infuriating to see her “buffalo” the doctors that she goes to see.
However, I think I can explain all of that. I have found that BPs pretty much all feel the same way inside. So, I am going to speculate that the reason that your daughter lies to you and disobeys you to have her friends over is twofold (but inter-related):
1) She is too ashamed of herself to say “no” to her friends. She doesn’t want them to know that she’s “crazy”. She feels that the consequences with her friends to say “no” to them are greater than the consequences she will incur by lying to you. Meaning, her lying is not specifically to hurt you (although it DOES hurt you a lot, as I can see); instead, her lying is about her feelings of shame and her inability to say “no” to her friends because of it. It is VERY common for BPs to overcommit themselves to other people because they are desperately seeking approval from their peers. They feel that to be a good friend (and, for them, a good person), they have to give everything to their friends (at first). When this doesn’t make them feel any better inside, they withdrawl suddenly from friendships in anger – they split the friends black. But ultimately this behavior of valuation and devaluation is rooted in their inner shame about who they are. Why do they feel that way? Well, that could lead to a much longer discussion, but let’s just say that they ALL DO.
2) At 23, she is desperate to be “normal” and not be “crazy”. The stint in the in patient facility and the diagnosis of BPD has put a big red “C” (for crazy) across her chest. She’s terribly afraid that her friends will see that she is crazy and will run away from her (fear of abandonment). This fear is also rooted in shame. She is ashamed that she is not just a normal young woman like all of her peers. She’s 23, so she thinks “isn’t it ‘normal’ to be able to have friends over to your house all night?” The problem is she doesn’t know how it actually feels to be normal. And that she is not normal enough to have her own place yet (that probably also deeply embarrasses her). She has always (I suspect from when she was a little girl) felt uneasy about her feelings – she has always felt weird and broken inside. She is ashamed of that feeling, because it is not normal. She probably constantly worries about not being normal, about being broken. And then she worries about worrying too much and on and on. They (the BPs) all feel this way too. So she is fighting not really against you specifically, but against her own feelings of being not normal, of being crazy.
Anyway, I understand why you would feel that her actions are specifically designed to hurt you. She “buffalos” the doctors for the same reason. She is ashamed to admit to herself that she’s “crazy” in any way – although deep down she’s always known that she is “different” or “weird inside”. I have verfied these feelings with many different borderline teens, young adults and adults (including my wife and my “pre-BPD” daughter). I used to think that there was malice involved in their actions, but now I believe their actions are sad attempts to try and fill that deep sense of emptiness that they have inside them. They really don’t consider how their actions effect you at all. It takes time and learning before they can see that.
OK, I don’t know if I’m right on the money as far as the daughter is concerned. But feel free to comment if you think I am or am not.
Many people when they find out about BPD, read “Stop Walking on Eggshells”. Just about everyone in the “non” community has read it. I read it AND read the workbook. At the time I thought, “Yes! Someone who understands!” I thought, “Finally, a method for dealing with my wife’s crazy behaviors.”
Well, folks, I was wrong. This book is about nons and ways for the nons to handle the BP’s behavior. Unfortunately, for the BPs, it does nothing to help them heal. In fact, the idea of setting limits and boundaries for BPs only serves to pissd them off more. Let me tell you why:
BPD is a disorder in which the sufferer feels emotions more strongly that a normal person.
When they are in the throes of a deep feeling, they cannot think logically. The limit that you set merely acts as a judgement of their behavior and boundary to be stepped over. They need to feel that they are OK. They live in a state of shame. If you tell them, through boundaries, that they are not OK, the message merely serves to fuel the deeply-felt emotion of shame. The behavior will get worse and you will get even angrier. This cycle of shame-anger between you and the BP serves to make you feel even more like leaving, like they can’t be “cured” and distances you from them even more. That is the real BP “dance” or “merry-go-round”.
When talking recently to the BP in my life, she had been reading a post on the Internet about “boundaries” and “limits” when dealing with borderlines. The post said this man’s ex-wife was a borderline – a nigtmare and a total abuser of him and the relationship. So, he left her. I wonder how that made her feel? Shamed further, perhaps?
I’m not saying that everyone should stay with their BP partner. What I am saying is: if you decide to stay, you should help that person heal, rather than set limits, sign contracts, be angry, etc.
Remember, borderlines suffer a lot of internal pain. All day, everyday. And they will do anything to stop the pain, including cutting, starving, raging, spending and attempting suicide.
Buy the book that can make your relationship last and grow:
When Hope is Not EnoughGet the Non-BPD book that is designed for staying and working on the relationship
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