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I get so sick of the “support community” for Non-BP’s on the Internet. The terms that invent and proliferate – it’s enough to drive someone crazy. Misinformation, misinformation, misinformation. I understand that Nons are upset, angry and confused about BPD. Heck, I was upset, angry and confused too – about three years ago. I think it’s best to learn as much as you can about the disorder and to practice skills to make things easier, both for the BP and the Non-BP.
Today, I’d like to take on the idea of “hoovering.” A full definition of hoovering can be found here (BTW, that is a lousy website for BPD information IMO). You can read the definition and forget it. Hoovering doesn’t exist. As a Non, you might feel that it exists, but in reality it doesn’t exist. I know I’m bound to get angry emails or comments from angry Nons that are convinced that they have been hoovered. “It happened just last night!” I thought I had been hoovered, way back on November 2, 2005. Here’s the text of a message I posted on WTO about my wife’s “hoovering”:
FROM ANOTHER LIST MEMBER: [I have never written before because I was too ashamed to admit that I had allowed myself and my children to fall into such a bizarre and screwed up situation, nor am I sure that anyone would believe what we have actually lived through.]
MY RESPONSE:
Yes, no joke. Really none.I have felt this way for YEARS. I have refused to open up to anyone. I was embarrassed and sick about the behaviors. It wasn’t until last month at this time – when my wife exhibited “cutting” behavior – that I realized that she’d finally gone and done something I didn’t have an inkling about why. I always understood the depression (it’s in my family in spades) – I always understood the rage (well, sort of, Nons are angry too) – But I never felt the compulsion to cut myself.
That = research. Research = finding out about the real story behind BPD. That = finding WTO. This forum is just about the only thing that keeps me sane. Knowing that I’m not alone, that’s priceless.
You are not alone. Embarrassed, sure. Hiding the secret, yes.
My wife is currently (well, if she wasn’t passed out from taking too many sleep pills) in a BP moment – she just hoovered in the most primal way – trying to push my buttons, but me not allowing them to be pushed. That = rage on her part (and I have said she isn’t a rager – she only rages when I don’t comply). Now I’m 3 rooms away (we have a fairly large house) and I can hear her snoring away as I write this. Point is – embarrassed or not – the nons all feel your pain.
God, I knew nothing about BPD back then. I was so ignorant. I actually said that finding WTO was “finding the real story behind BPD.” Stupid me. I’ve learned so much more about BPD since then and realized that WTO was poisonous toward maintaining a relationship with a BP. I just felt so validated there, because I found other people that had experienced some of the same things I felt I had experienced. I had an explanation and some (virtual) shoulders to cry on. Unfortunately, that is all they do there – bitch about there (usually) “BPxh” (who most likely doesn’t have BPD and is just an a-hole) and cry on each other shoulders. I suppose there’s room in the (virtual) world for that. Must be, considering they have 4000+ members.
Ok, back to hoovering. Why do I say it doesn’t exist? I say it doesn’t exist because a person with BPD has dysregulated emotions. When they feel kind, happy, desperate, anxious, sad, angry, etc. they actually FEEL that way. The feeling is overpowering. It is not a “designed” situation. It is not manipulation – which is exactly what hoovering implies. A person with BPD is too “in the moment” of their dysregulated emotions to plan ahead of time when to hoover. Granted, this action may be born out of a fear of abandonment. However, the feeling is real and not prearranged.
Well, then you might ask me: What does this person (with BPD) actually believe about me? Are they telling the truth when they rage at me and tell me they hate me? Are they telling the truth when they “hoover” me into sex (or something else)? My answer: they are telling the truth in both situations. The truth is what they feel at any given time. It is not about you. It is about their feelings and their inability to self-soothe. I have an acronym for this in my book: IAAHF (It’s all about his/her feelings). Once you understand that, you are moving a long way toward the path of healing.
When Hope is Not Enough
Get the Non-BPD book that is designed for
staying and working on the relationship
Related posts:
- The Myth of the High-Functioning Borderline
- Net BPD Myth Debunking from “Tides…”
- More on Hoovering
- Hoovering or not? An unexpected gift from someone with BPD
- BPD Myth Busting: 7 common myths about Borderline Personality Disorder
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I really appreciate how well-tended and comprehensive your blog continues to be. However, I just wanted to comment on this entry, because I feel it alienates a lot of people who could potentially benefit from your experience as partner of someone with BPD.
Your contempt for the WTO forum at large is pretty thinly – if at all – veiled in this entry. I realize it’s not the most optimistic community in terms of sustaining a relationship with a BPD-affected partner, but Nons are not seeking answers for that sole purpose. I’m sure you can relate to the rending ambivalence and loss of self that most Nons find themselves coping with. Sometimes they may need people to commiserate with, or to give them a much-needed wake-up call that they’re in danger and should exit. I’ve only recently joined and have already seen many cases of members rebuilding their lives with the support of the group, and this is anything but harmful for both the Non and the person with BPD
A lot of Nons have been / are in abusive, traumatic situations as a result of BPD. Receiving validation of that experience, as well as advice and encouragement, can repair self-esteem, renew strength, or even save lives. The sense of isolation inherent to that dynamic can emotionally cripple a person and sometimes all they need is a dialogue to confirm that they’re not alone in it. Why denounce a forum – merely a sum of individuals no different than your own readership – from which you yourself once received support, just because you’ve ultimately found a solution that suits your personal situation better? Is it that crucial for you to put such a vast gulf between your enlightened mentality and their “so three years ago” state of ignorance, confusion, and anger?
Regarding the misinformation you mention, you’ve discounted the existence of the “hoovering” phenomenon on the basis that it’s not a conscious behaviour. In the link you provided, and in mentions of this concept I’ve seen elsewhere, I didn’t note any stipulation that the key ingredient of hoovering is premeditation. It’s merely an esoteric term to describe the behaviour that follows after the person with BPD has done something to scare off / push away their partner, and it is very compelling and sometimes very dangerous for the Non. It also mirrors the cycle of violence in cases of domestic abuse and you are dismissing the realities of countless victims who are so frequently told they should “just leave”. THIS is a shining example of ignorance. Whatever household appliance you name it after, the behaviour pattern in question most certainly does exist, in studies, interviews, textbooks, and therapy sessions, regardless of whether the person enacting it is conscious of its effects.
Lastly, I wanted to comment on something specific you wrote that leapt out at me:
“Unfortunately, that is all they do there – bitch about there (usually) “BPxh” (who most likely doesn’t have BPD and is just an a-hole) and cry on each other shoulders.”
I don’t know if you intentionally meant to do this, but the above assessment comes off as quite gendered and judgmental. The use of “bitch” in conjunction with “BPx[husband]” and “cry[ing] on each other’s shoulders” all connote negative stereotypes about women. The sweeping judgment that the aforementioned is “all they do” also devalues any positive or conversations they may have had there; moreover, I don’t understand what led you to the conclusion that their “(usually)” ex-husband does not likely have BPD. Care to clarify?
I’ve read your blog in bits and pieces since first finding out that the man in my life had BPD and had found your observations to be well thought-out and fairly objective, despite stemming from subjective experience. This entry undermines your overall credibilty with its unwarranted hostility, blatant disregard of effective communication techniques (validation, anyone??) and unsettling degree of callousness towards the majority of your audience: Nons.
Des,
Thanks so much for your thoughtful and lengthy comment. After reading your comment, yes, I’d like to clarify about Hoovering specifically, which I plan to do in a new post about it and about your comment here. You said:
(snip)
“Unfortunately, that is all they do there “ bitch about there (usually) “BPxh” (who most likely doesn’t have BPD and is just an a-hole) and cry on each other shoulders.”
I don’t know if you intentionally meant to do this, but the above assessment comes off as quite gendered and judgmental. The use of “bitch” in conjunction with “BPx[husband]” and “cry[ing] on each other’s shoulders” all connote negative stereotypes about women. The sweeping judgment that the aforementioned is “all they do” also devalues any positive or conversations they may have had there; moreover, I don’t understand what led you to the conclusion that their “(usually)” ex-husband does not likely have BPD. Care to clarify?
I’ve read your blog in bits and pieces since first finding out that the man in my life had BPD and had found your observations to be well thought-out and fairly objective, despite stemming from subjective experience. This entry undermines your overall credibilty with its unwarranted hostility, blatant disregard of effective communication techniques (validation, anyone??) and unsettling degree of callousness towards the majority of your audience: Nons.
(unsnip)
That comment of mine springs from a frustration with the “nons” audience. I agree that nons require validation because, clearly, they are suffering from the chaotic interpersonal relationship with their BP. At the same time, many “nons” from certain areas of the Internet are not really nons at all. While my emotional skills can help anyone would is in a relationship with a highly emotional person, I have found that many people that are complaining about their “BP” are really in a relationship with someone with (primarily) NPD. BPD and NPD are two completely different disorders IMO. Emotional skills that work with BPs will not work with NPs – in fact, the skills could just make the situation worse.
I certainly apologize if I came across as invalidating toward nons, yet I wanted to make it clear that MANY people on the Internet are not dealing with BPD – and it matters. The reason I used women (and men can bitch too IMO) as an example is that BPD is more often diagnosed in women, not men. NPD, on the other hand, is more often diagnosed in men. So, it would seem to me that most of the people seeking help for their BP would be men – which is exactly the case on the ATSTP list, but it not the case on WTO. When these people (many of them women) describe the behavior of their “BPxh” it seems clear to me that they are not dealing with BPD at all. This is not to say that YOU are not dealing with a BPx. It’s just that I have found, with the popularity of SWOE, people read that book and assume that they are dealing with BPD. In many cases, this is not the case. So, some of these “nons” (which as you note is my primary audience) are not non-BPs at all (although they may be non-something else).
I write this blog and I wrote my book so that non-BPs can become more effective in their relationships with their BPs. However, if the other person does not have BPD or another similar emotions-based disorder, using the skills can be ineffective. While they can work with other emotional situations, if the person has NPD or some other clearly non-emotional disorder, these skills will not be effective. My intention in writing this post was not to insult or invalidate the nons – no, that would be counter-productive – it was to encourage the nons to examine closely their relationship with their BP to see if, in fact, it is an emotions-based disorder.
Bon
Des,
Also, I wanted to respond to one more comment you made here, and I will follow up with a post about Hoovering when I get a chance:
(snip)
Your contempt for the WTO forum at large is pretty thinly – if at all – veiled in this entry. I realize it’s not the most optimistic community in terms of sustaining a relationship with a BPD-affected partner, but Nons are not seeking answers for that sole purpose. I’m sure you can relate to the rending ambivalence and loss of self that most Nons find themselves coping with. Sometimes they may need people to commiserate with, or to give them a much-needed wake-up call that they’re in danger and should exit. I’ve only recently joined and have already seen many cases of members rebuilding their lives with the support of the group, and this is anything but harmful for both the Non and the person with BPD
(unsnip)
I agree with you that nons are not seeking answers for the sole purpose of staying with their partner. In fact I have met many, many PARENTS of BPs (95% of them mothers of BPD young women) and they do need skills to learn to be more effective with their daughters. However, in the case when you want to leave a BPD-partner or you have already left a BPD partner, I am not the resource to turn for that advice and support. WTO is IMO discouraging of people that do want to work things out and to share effective skills in that process. I consult with loved ones who want to remain loved ones, not with people who want to know how to leave a relationship.
I used WTO (as you say below) 3 years ago to commiserate, to vent and to “bitch” about my wife’s behavior. You can go back into the archives and see those messages from the Oct 2005-Dec 2005 time frame.
What I decided to do with my life is take it back without having to leave my wife in the process. I wanted to remain a loved one and took the attitude that we are on the same team, even if it seems that she is committing errors all over the place. I got emotionally tough and learned emotional skills. Those helped me get through the past 3 years and promote healing on both sides of the coin. As for contempt for WTO, I think it has its place, but it is not a place for me or for people who want to be more effective in their relationships.
(snip)
A lot of Nons have been / are in abusive, traumatic situations as a result of BPD. Receiving validation of that experience, as well as advice and encouragement, can repair self-esteem, renew strength, or even save lives. The sense of isolation inherent to that dynamic can emotionally cripple a person and sometimes all they need is a dialogue to confirm that they’re not alone in it. Why denounce a forum – merely a sum of individuals no different than your own readership – from which you yourself once received support, just because you’ve ultimately found a solution that suits your personal situation better? Is it that crucial for you to put such a vast gulf between your enlightened mentality and their “so three years ago” state of ignorance, confusion, and anger?
(unsnip)
I agree wholeheartedly with you assessment here. Your description of some non relationships are exactly that. I am not denouncing WTO – I am pointing out that at some point, depending on your goals and your relationship, many nons outgrow WTO and want to arrive at a place that is more effective than commiseration. My readership (as I see it, both here and on my Google groups email list, which is much smaller, but IMO much more intimate than WTO) are the people that reach the point where they don’t want to be told “run, run, run!” or “put up boundaries” as a way of being effective in their relationships.
And yes, it is that crucial, because I serve as an example of someone who was able to learn, grow, heal and change such that I rebuilt my relationship with my wife and daughter. Others who have read my book also have indicated the same thing. I think one has to keep in mind one’s goals. As I said in my SWOE vs. WHINE post, the subtitles of each book indicate the different stance each book takes. SWOE’s is “taking back your life when someone you care about has BPD.” WHINE’s is “a how-to guide for living with and loving someone with BPD.” My goal was the second – it is relationship focused (and can help with other relationships that are emotionally intense). SWOE’s goal is focused on healing and empowering the non and, while it does talk about the relationship, it is not really relationship-focused – it is non-focused. Both have their place, depending on the place at which one is in their relationship and healing process.
I have grown to the point where I have completed the SWOE non-healing part of my evolution, now I am relationship-focused. Both contribute to my having a calmer life and relationship. It is difficult for me to “go back in time” and state the same things over and over. I still have to do it on my own list (the ATSTP Google Group), but I come at it from a new perspective. That is: if you want to keep the relationship and promote healing within yourself and within the person with BPD, here are some specific ways you can do so – and each worked (and continues to work) for me.
Bon
Can we name Bpd’s by name and State
No, I’d rather not anyone do that. That seems a bit like a public airing of dirty laundry and unless the person self-identifies, seems a violation of privacy.
The term “hoover” is “urban slang”. The term was born on an Internet support forum in the early 2000’s (not WTO).
Is it a good term or a bad one? I think the true test is whether it enlightens and provides clarity over more conventional terminology or whether it obfuscates and furthers misunderstanding.
From my experience, it is more the latter.
“Hoovering” generally implies maliciousness, premeditation, and that a pwBPD does it intentionally to injure the “non”.
As B Dobbs points out, pwBPD are notoriously impulsive, wounded, and reflexive and often too consumed in their own pain to be respectful or sensitive to others.
While the “reason” may not matter much with respect to how much a non is hurt by such actions… the reason does matter in terms of how the non can best respond for all involved.
Good discussion.
Skip,
Thanks for the comment and, of course, I agree with your point that the term “hoovering” comes with connotations that prevent further understanding and, even more so, the development of compassion for the other person. Compassion and understanding are vital to the communication of feelings without judgment and with honesty. The problem I have with terms such as “hoovering” is that they do imply malicious intent – it connotes the idea of “tricking” the family member into believing something that is a charade. I fully believe that when a person with BPD says he/she is wanting the other person back, that the person with BPD actually feels this way at the time, regardless of whether this feelings will morph/change in the future, which, in my experience, the feelings usually do morph – such is the nature of emotional dsyregulation. I recently posted to my list that “they always mean it at the time”, meaning, because of the overwhelming emotions, the person with BPD is likely to be expressing feelings in an honest fashion, at least at any given moment, with little or no premeditation or manipulative intent. One thing that many people ignore or do not fully understand is the nature of emotional dysregulation and the power that these emotional states can have over (any) person. The “reason” does matter, because it can be understood and more effectively dealt with if it is understood and mentalized.
“Ok, back to hoovering. Why do I say it doesn’t exist? I say it doesn’t exist because a person with BPD has dysregulated emotions. When they feel kind, happy, desperate, anxious, sad, angry, etc. they actually FEEL that way. The feeling is overpowering. It is not a “designed” situation. It is not manipulation – which is exactly what hoovering implies. A person with BPD is too “in the moment” of their dysregulated emotions to plan ahead of time when to hoover. Granted, this action may be born out of a fear of abandonment. However, the feeling is real and not prearranged.”
When speaking of hoovering, no one is debating whether a BPD’s feelings are real or not.
Your argument is based upon whether or not this action (called hoovering)is premeditated. That is completely irrelevant.
I agree that BPDs (when hoovering)act impulsively. They do not pull out a calendar and say “Alright, I’m gonna call my ex every Thursday at 5 and see if he’ll respond.” And I agree it is not done with conscious, malicous intent.
They do it out of a desperate need for attention (caused by a fear of abandonment).
When my ex hoovered me, she was actually disappointed that I was no longer attempting to make contact with her(even though she ended the relationship, and no longer had feelings for me). She tried to make me feel guilty that I was moving on with my life.
The point is, the BPD is trying to keep some sort of relationship going. They may not be consciously aware of their intentions, but by contacting their ex, they are trying to prevent their ex from moving on. When relationships end, they end. They are not transformed.
“The point is, the BPD is trying to keep some sort of relationship going. They may not be consciously aware of their intentions, but by contacting their ex, they are trying to prevent their ex from moving on. When relationships end, they end. They are not transformed.”
They are trying to deal with the painful feelings of fear, shame and sadness. The “keeping the relationship going” is merely the current “salve” that they believe will make them feel better. People with BPD IMO act/react out of one basic stance – that is pain emotions. It is about their current feelings and has little to do with you – even when it is about the relationship.
I would agree that Hoovering is a myth, as I do not beleive my wife’s emotional outbursts are premeditated, but I fully beleive that the person with BPD knows full well what they did was wrong AFTER the fact and will attempt to “cover up” what they did and WILL THINK and PLAN of ways to do that. For instance, if my wife calls me an @ssh#le and says that she has never hated someone more in her life, and then in an hour or two acts as if nothing happened, if I address what she did when she seems calm, I will reignite the anger. She will have planned out me questioning her emotional outburst because she on some level must see how inappropriate they it was and will have an argument and my “faults” at the ready to pin fault on me. I base this on experience as everytime I confront my wife about her bahavior right after, during, or even when things seem calm, I get a very PREORCHESTRATED argument where I am always wrong. This is why therapists and many books instruct to never confront the BPD until things are better, ie their defense are down. So I guess what I am saying is although Hoovering I beleive is a myth, planning and thinking at least after the outburst is concerned is very real.
I don’t think they plan anything. I think they are embarrassed by their behavior and inability to regulate their emotions. So when we confront them, they rage because they just want to forget they acted inappropriately and hurtful. I think they really hate to hurt and it is easier to start over and not face what they did. Or take responsibility. I never brought up my ex’s behavior if it was negative. I didn’t have to, he knew what he did…just didn’t understand why. And to this day I feel he is a good person who wants to be loved and love back without fear.
Excessive relationship recycling, or break-up/make-ups happen a lot in some “BPD” relationships. 70% of our members having unsuccessful relationships report having had 4 or more break-up/make-ups. 23% report an unbelievable 10 or more.
Recycling is about both parties. No one gets “hoovered” or “sucked” into a relationship against their will. The real dynamic is that both parties return to a place they feel is safer/easier than being apart.
Recycling can become the “norm” in a relationship. Both parties can become conditioned to it after a while. Accepting this “norm” is the ultimate boundary violation – you are not treating each other well. Frankly, recovering from this “norm” is not possible for some couples.
If you have been through more than 3 break-up/make-ups in your relationship, its important to recognize that your relationship has a low probability of succeeding. Advanced recycling will not go away on its own. One person can’t fix it unilaterally. The only hope is to make a joint commitment to some type of structured rehabilitation (e.g., therapy, support group, workshops, self-help program, etc.)
Fix it (together) or admit defeat and move on. Living with excessive recycling is a bad place to be.
Good comments.
Skip
BPDFamily.com
‘ Ok, back to hoovering. Why do I say it doesn’t exist? I say it doesn’t exist because a person with BPD has dysregulated emotions. When they feel kind, happy, desperate, anxious, sad, angry, etc. they actually FEEL that way. ‘
False. What they are feeling is their fear of abandonment, isolation, and of being alone. Paralyzed by the fear, and triggered by events to which they cannot recognize a direct participation, whether implicitly, or explicitly, their motivating factor is to assuage their distorted, dysregulated emotions – this…is the primary emotion, and the motivating element that has precipitated their behavior – the hoovering.
What results are disingenuous statements that do not procure any insight into the behavior that lead up to such circumstances, let alone the cognitive distortions that precipitated said behavior. It is a mere mask.
This is what distinguishes the difference between an individual who is capable of recognizing their behavior, and the consideration of those they are in communication with, and that of the pathological personality, when said individuals seek to mend any issues within any given interpersonal relation they seek to preserve.
‘ Well, then you might ask me: What does this person (with BPD) actually believe about me? Are they telling the truth when they “hoover” me into sex (or something else)? My answer: they are telling the truth in both situations. The truth is what they feel at any given time. It is not about you. It is about their feelings and their inability to self-soothe. ‘
What? What they feel at any given time? Their actions are based upon concretized, ego-syntonic defense mechanisms, coupled with an inability to recognize their behavior, and, the thoughts that lead up to them.
That said, with regards to how they ‘feel’:
Perceptions lead to thoughts,
Thoughts lead to emotions (feelings),
Emotions lead to behavior.
Triggers are pre-supported by distorted perceptions and how they are received, not how they ‘feel’. If their perceptions are cause for concern, their ‘feelings’ must be reviewed concurrently. This is precluded by core wounds that must be uncovered.
That said, once their fear of abandonment is triggered, and the ‘hoovering’ begins, a list of blanket statements begin to emerge – statements which have been conscientiously cataloged for recital. statements which have been otherwise absent from the relationship, not only in conversation, but especially in spirit. They do not see the other individual – they are an object – nor do they recognize virtues of their articulation. They parrot their list, and seek for acclamations as a result of them. If the other individual accepts their statements, it reinforces and supports the disordered ego-syntonic state, along with the narcissism it relies upon. It is their distorted fears, that compel them to act, not the recognition, or the consideration for, or of the individual.
As a person who had BPD and recovered from it, I feel like I would be able to offer a useful perspective on this issue from the other side. The person who commented: “I fully beleive that the person with BPD knows full well what they did was wrong AFTER the fact and will attempt to “cover up” what they did and WILL THINK and PLAN of ways to do that” is absolutely correct, at least from what I remember from my own experience. Those in the active throes of BPD will not tell you this, but Borderlines very frequently know well what they are doing with regard to manipulation after the initial emotionally intense firestorm has passed. In the aftermath of the lack of impulse control, it basically then becomes a game of “ cover up my bad parts to avoid unbearable shame and abandonment” I will explain:
When I had BPD, I would say things in the heat of the moment and not really be thinking about what I was doing, sort of like “autopilot” but afterwards, I would know full well that what I did in that emotional moment was wrong, out of line, sometimes completely sneaky and often emotionally abusive. I knew it deep in my heart but I would do nothing about it. I would feel very guilty, but still actively plan my strategy to avoid owning up to it like a little kid who doesn’t want mommy to realize that I actually broke her favorite vase, and not the cat. See what you must realize is, a person with BPD cannot simultaneously see themselves as both good and bad, just like they cannot see YOU as both good and bad. The thinking is black or white even for their own self, so basically the issue becomes “If I acknowledge that I am not perfect and did something very mean to my partner, that means I am 100 percent horrible and wicked and unlovable, and when the other person gets wind of it, they will abandon me” So even when I knew later on that I had done wrong, my ego was far too fragile to accept any wrongdoing whatsoever on my part, and I had to just use denial, projection, etc. to feel like I was in the right and fully justified. This served two purposes: One was that I would not fall into crushing self-loathing at the unbearable realization that there were ACTUALLY parts of me capable of being cruel, and the second reason for me realizing my guilt, but not admitting it or changing it was not wanting my badness to be “found out”, lest the person leave me. That was far too much to risk, so I would just rely on my old “bag of tricks” to keep them around. It was all I knew how to use to survive with my underdeveloped ego. So later, I would realize how wrong I was, but would knowingly try to cover my tracks with all sorts of dramatic gaslighting and planned manipulation to keep the other person from figuring out that it was actually ME who was totally wrong and out of line. As long as they questioned themselves and wondered if it was all their fault; as I would so often say it was, I would be protected from the crushing reality of my own flaws. Since I didn’t realize back then that I could sometimes make horrible mistakes, but still be an okay person who can be loved by someone, the idea of simply owning up to my wrongdoing was unthinkable. So the manipulation which came after the fact was a plan to avoid having my “sins” exposed either to the other person or, most importantly, to myself. I think this is the true reason why those with BPD will say “I can’t stand it when people say those with BPD are manipulative. That is nothing but a myth” I used to say that too, but it was because I was in denial even to myself. To maintain any self-esteem at all, I needed to maintain the “all white” image of myself as a person who was not even remotely capable of doing that, so I would get very angry when anyone would make any statement which threatened this image. I needed to believe it was nothing but a horrible stereotype to avoid the reality of admitting to MYSELF that it was often quite true. From my personal experience, the true BPD problem is not the emotional regulation issues, but rather the severe ego/identity issues which cause so much use of hurtful defense mechanisms in relationships.
Joining this discussion a year late.
As an ex-NON, I have to say that hoovering DOES in fact exist. In fact, I don’t think PWBPD have a right to say that it DOESN’T exist! If you’ve had it done to you, there’s no doubting it.
“Hoovering” generally implies maliciousness, premeditation, and that a pwBPD does it intentionally to injure the “non.”
No, sorry. This is a false statement. Maliciousness or premeditation do not have to be present for hoovering to take place. To say that ‘No malicsiousness/no premeditation = NO HOOVERING’ is an extremely subjective notion. A BPD can – and often does – hoover without maliciousness or premeditation. The term ‘Hoovering’ is not perjorative in and of itself. Its meaning depends on context.
Here’s an example of of Hoovering:
I broke it off with my ex BPD and told her that, in no uncertain terms, it was OVER and that I wanted NO CONTACT. A week later, during a hurricane, she called me frantically to ‘see if I was allright’ because there was severe flooding in my area.’ I was safe. In fact, I was warmly ensconced in my friend’s house a mile away from the flood, watching a movie.
So let me get this straight: I, a man who has somehow managed to survive for 43 years and can bench press 280 pounds, CAN’T get myself out of a potential flood area before a flood comes? REALLY?? I don’t follow the weather reports when there’s a hurricane coming? Right . . .
Sure . . . she was real ‘worried’ about me. It was a HOOVERING attempt!
Did she ‘mean’ to Hoover me? Probably not. But she DID IT. Was she being malicious? WHO CARES!! As a NON, all I wanted was NO CONTACT, and she wouldn’t give it to me.
I feel some victim-blaming going on here.