Two of the potential issues Anthony could suffer from are border personality disorder and psychopathology, the experts said. The main thing these issues have in common is a total lack of empathy, according to LeslieBeth Wish, a psychologist and licensed social worker in Sarasota, Fla.

“They can turn a person into a non-person,” Wish said. “Borderline personalities have more emotional regulation problem and often use lying to get away from something and not ever feeling like they’re responsible.”

Those two potential issues were the ones that I identified and opined on the other day. The second paragraph above is why I believe that Casey Anthony probably doesn’t have BPD. The reasons for the lies are not impulsive and reactive, as they seem to be most often in BPD. People with BPD are much more likely to “bullshit” (as a term of art not vulgarity) than to actually lie with proactive intent. They can make up some elaborate stories about themselves, typically to make their world a safer and more livable place when others think better of them. Still, most often BPD lies are to get through a painful moment. Very often as the lies collapse, they will admit everything and ask forgiveness. Casey did NOT do this. She maintained her lies even after the police were aware they were lies. In fact, she started lying to her parents LONG BEFORE Caylee went missing.  She lied (by omission) about her pregnancy. She lied about having a job at Universal Studios BEFORE the cops got involved.

As for psychopathy…. I presented the guidelines of Hare’s PCL-R on the other page. Let’s look at them again and see which of these seem to match Casey Anthony, based on what we know from the press:

PCL-R items

The following findings are for research purposes only, and are not used in clinical diagnosis. These items cover the affective, interpersonal, and behavioral features. Each item is rated on a score from zero to two. The sum total determines the extent of a person’s psychopathy.

Factor 1

Aggressive narcissism – Hard to say for Casey Anthony. We don’t really know enough. We do know that, when in jail, she got angry about what this situation was doing to HER!

Glibness/superficial charm – Yes.

Grandiose sense of self-worth – Again hard to say. This is one factor that really separates BPD from the narcissism spectrum. People with BPD have a lot of shame and generally hate themselves.

Pathological lying – YES, YES, YES.

Cunning/manipulative – I’d have to say yes.

Lack of remorse or guilt – Again, I think we need to say yes here.

Emotionally shallow – Hard to say.

Callous/lack of empathy – Could be. Hard to say.

Failure to accept responsibility for own actions – Yes. It’s never her fault.

Factor 2

Socially deviant lifestyle – Party girl. One night stands.

Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom – Probably, but who knows.

Parasitic lifestyle – Yes. She was living off her parents and then off friends while pretending to have a job. Actually, it is interesting to note that she was telling her mother she had a job long before Caylee disappeared.

Poor behavioral control – Probably. Again, one night stands.

Promiscuous sexual behavior – Yes.

Lack of realistic, long-term goals – Yes.

Impulsiveness – Yes.

Irresponsibility – Yes.

Juvenile delinquency – well, some form of delinquency. She stole checks from her friend and passed them.

Early behavioral problems – unknown.

Revocation of conditional release – we’ll see.

Traits not correlated with either factor

Many short-term marital relationships – no, but many short-term boyfriends

Criminal versatility – it depends. She stole and possibly caused the death of her daughter. They couldn’t prove it in court to the satisfaction of the jury, but we may never know.

Ok, onto the article:

‘Dr. Judy’ Doubts Casey Anthony’s Penchant for Lying Can Be Cured

By CHRISTINA NG
July 19, 2011

Casey Anthony’s lawyers have said that Anthony has suffered “trauma” and will need counseling now that she is a free woman, but experts aren’t sure Anthony can be helped.

“It would be exceptionally difficult for anybody to treat her. There is no magic pill that’s a truth serum for a person who’s a pathological liar,” said Dr. Judy Kuriansky a psychologist from Columbia University, but better known from her radio show as Dr. Judy.

Kuriansky believes that Anthony likely feels that she has been rewarded for her lying with her acquittal and release from jail.

“Why would she want to go to therapy when she basically got what she wanted? There’s no motivation for her to seek help,” Kuriansky said. “If she had been sent to jail, maybe she would want to see somebody because her style didn’t work, but it did.”

Anthony, 25, is in hiding after being released from a Florida jail following her acquittal on murder charges for the death of her 2-year-old daughter Caylee. She has received death threats and as she left jail protesters changed “Caylee, Caylee.”

Casey Anthony Therapy Will Be ‘Challenge’

Anthony’s criminal lawyer Jose Baez has said, “It is my hope that Casey Anthony can receive the counselling and treatment she needs to move forward with the rest of her life.”

Her civil attorney Charles Greene was quoted as saying Anthony was “emotionally unstable” following the trauma of her daughter’s death and the grueling trial.

Psychologists interviewed by ABCNews.com agree that the desire to change is the key to successful treatment for pathological liars, which some believe Anthony may be.

While acquitted of murder, she was convicted on four counts of lying to police. One of her lies was that Caylee was kidnapped by a fictional nanny named Zanny. Zanny was one of a dozen bogus characters that Casey had created. She also lied about working at Universal Studios.

None of the psychologists who spoke with ABCNews.com have treated Casey Anthony, but spoke from observations and personal experience.

Two of the potential issues Anthony could suffer from are border personality disorder and psychopathology, the experts said. The main thing these issues have in common is a total lack of empathy, according to LeslieBeth Wish, a psychologist and licensed social worker in Sarasota, Fla.

“They can turn a person into a non-person,” Wish said. “Borderline personalities have more emotional regulation problem and often use lying to get away from something and not ever feeling like they’re responsible.”

Wish explains that for people who suffer from these problems, separate lies can quickly become entire narratives that the teller can even come to believe as true.

“A lie begets a lie and it’s easy to get trapped in telling lies to protect other lies,” Wish said. “Does she believe her lies? She might, but more than likely she believes that she’s good enough to make you believe her lies.”

While Kuriansky emphasizes that she cannot make a diagnosis on a patient she has not seen, she does believe that Anthony has a personality disorder. Her personality disorder could have “narcissistic features with particular attention to pathological lying.”

The symptoms of this problem include volatile moods, extremely manipulative personalities, a lack of empathy of others and a strongly defensive nature, she said.

“I believe there is something that can be done for people like this,” said Tony Ferretti, a psychologist in Melbourne, Fla. “The behavior has been learned and can be unlearned. A person is not born a liar.”

The problem with Anthony, Ferretti believes, is that she does not appear to have the motivation or desire to change her behavior.

“It’s kind of like an addict, until they acknowledge that they have a problem or desire or motivation to change, nothing is going to chnge,” Ferretti said.

Casey Anthony Therapy Will Be ‘Formidable Challenge’ to a Therapist

Wish said the problem generally develops in early childhood and can come from a lack nurturing and stability, especially from parents.

Casey Anthony’s murder trial tore apart the Anthony family with lurid accusations that her father and brother molested her and that her father had a mistress. George Anthony denied those accusations. Casey Anthony’s relationship with her mother was also portrayed as strained, with several witnesses saying that the two argued a lot and were often at odds.

Psychologists agree that all of this could contribute to Casey Anthony’s penchant for lying.

Kuriansky believes that Anthony might be able to benefit from supportive counseling, but this would be a formidable challenge for a counselor or therapist who would need to be on guard about believing anything Anthony said.

“It’s really hard to treat,” Wish said. “You can’t say it’s impossible, but it’s very difficult.”

“These are people that cannot withstand very much self-examination, but you can work on emotional regulation and helping them understand and see [things] differently,” Wish said. “It’s a very small rope of balancing emotions and thinking.”

All three psychologists agree that it mainly comes down to what the person in question wants. If they want help, they can be successful, but if they do not, it is virtually impossible to help them.

Casey Anthony is a free woman and her next step is up to her, and perhaps her lawyers, but Wish believes, “She still needs something. She can’t just be tossed out there.”

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Casey Anthony Acquitted

A few weeks ago I posted an article entitled Casey Anthony: Borderline Personality Disorder, a Psychopath or What? This “analysis” garnered a lot of attention (or at least a lot of traffic) for me. I found that yesterday was the busiest day on my blog ever with over 400 views of that article alone (usually I get about 600 daily views of my blog so this was unusual). Of course anyone that has followed the Casey Anthony trial knows why – she was acquitted of first degree murder and aggravated child abuse, but was convicted of four misdemeanor charges of making false statements to the police.

I watched about half of the trial. I followed it as closely as possible and read about Ms. Anthony’s lies, watched the jail videos, read about her partying, watched her interviews, etc. The issue I see here is two-fold. Firstly, it is not a crime to lie (except to officials, which she did and was convicted of; or to the court, which she did not, since she didn’t testify), nor is it a crime to party with your friends. While the behavior is odd and curious (why would one do that if your child is missing?), it is not criminal. What the state was attempting to prove in this case was first-degree capital murder, without physical evidence, DNA, witnesses or a cause of death. A very high standard and hard hill to climb. Not too surprising that she was acquitted. I think (as do many others) that the state of Florida should have charged her with lesser crimes (homicide or manslaughter for example). It seemed to me from the beginning that Caylee’s death was probably a horrible accident or an impulsive action (like doping the child too much) that Casey thought she could distance herself from by lying and avoiding. Unfortunately, she has now learned that lies (even if she didn’t do it or it was an accident, we’ll probably never know unless someone with knowledge of what happens starts to talk) have paid off. In fact, if it WAS an accident and she had come forward at the beginning and said “I messed up, I’m sorry” she would have probably received a more severe punishment than she will now receive. (Of course I have trouble believing the George Anthony angle because Casey has a history of telling lies to get herself off the hook.) She is not a felon at this point. All that being said, I believe that this case is one in which our justice system was shown to work, but justice was not done for the child.

Which brings me to my second point about this case… It is not a crime to be mentally ill, no matter if you have Borderline Personality Disorder, PTSD from abuse or you’re a psychopath. You can’t be thrown in jail or executed just because you’re sick in the head. You can only be thrown in jail or executed based on what you do and what evidence shows you’ve done and what a jury of your peers (or a judge in some cases) believes, beyond a reasonable doubt, you have done. Criminal behavior and mental illness are not synonymous. Actions and feelings are not the same. Someone who has aggressive feelings towards others and never acts upon them, they’re innocent of any crime. As for Casey Anthony, even her defense team said that her lies were an indication that she needed help. Those lies were reflective of a deeper psychological disturbance. What it may be, we’ll probably never know, nor should we.

Still, I believe that Casey Anthony will be unable to stay on the right side of the law for long. She’ll not likely kill anyone but, based on her pattern of behavior, she is impulsive and believes that she can talk her way out of just about anything. Unfortunately, this time she was able to talk her way out of any involvement in her daughter’s death – murder or accident.

When Hope is Not Enough
Get the Non-BPD book that is designed for
staying and working on the relationship

Without Conscience: The Disturbing World of the Psychopaths Among Us

The Psychopath Test: A Journey Through the Madness Industry

The Psychopath: Emotion and the Brain

Handbook of Psychopathy

The Mask of Sanity (Mosby medical library)

Related posts:

1. Mentalization and BPD
2. Anti-social Personality Disorder mistaken for BPD – when people get it wrong
3. Ok, Bon, what’s wrong with boundaries?

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Lying was a big thing for me as well–I took my wife’s lying personally. In retrospect, I did a lot of damage because of that. I made my wife feel like sh*t by pushing her on it, which didn’t help her or the relationship. I understand now that she used lies as a way to create a space in her life that was more tolerable for her. It was one of her few (albeit ineffective) ways to escape some of her personal anguish, and I took it away from her–not because I wanted to help her, but in order to make ME feel better.

There is absolutely no better way to have somebody fear being close to you than to make yourself feel better at the expense of their emotional well-being. It sounds like you understand this now, but I wanted to emphasize its importance. To anyone who might counter with “But why should I have to put up with lies? What about me?”–My answer is, you don’t. You can leave, and I advise leaving while avoiding doing any needless damage to another human being.

Sorry if that sounds harsh–it’s not directed at you. It’s just that I’ve seen the damage that anxious, fearful, and entitled partners (ie, me a couple of years ago) can do to people struggling with internal demons. I’m not at all being hard on myself either–just realistic. I didn’t know better at the time.

Related posts:

1. BPD and Lying
2. BPD, lying and the nature of truth
3. BPD and Lying – again…

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Casey Anthony BPD or Psychopath or What?

A few days ago I got an email from a member of the ATSTP list asking me what I thought about the possibility of Casey Anthony, who is currently on trial for the murder of her 2 year old daughter (Caylee Anthony), having Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD). In 2008, I was following the case with interest. I have followed it a bit during the trial. I am not a doctor or a mental health professional, yet I have met a LOT of people with BPD (both men and women) and members of their families. I’ve looked at Casey Anthony’s behavior and compared it with the behavior of people that I know with BPD. I pretty much come to the conclusion that Casey Anthony doesn’t have borderline personality disorder. It seems to be more likely that she’s a psychopath. It seems that some criminal profilers agree…

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/36551199/ns/today-today_people/t/do-letters-show-casey-anthony-psychopath/

Pat Brown, a criminal profiler, told TODAY’s Meredith Vieira that in her opinion, Anthony is a psychopath who is trying to get potential jurors to feel sorry for her. The letters are the way she does it, Brown said.

“This will prove she’s a new woman. After all, she’s found God,” Brown said, adding that juries will frequently sympathize with a woman who claims she was abused and mistreated but now has found the light.

“A lot of time women go to court, juries start feeling sorry for them,” Brown said. “It’s manipulation.”

Brown called the letters “a wonderful window into how a psychopath thinks.”

Here is some information about psychopathy:

In his 1941 book, Mask of Sanity, Hervey M. Cleckley introduced 16 behavioral characteristics of a psychopath:

• Superficial charm and good “intelligence”
• Absence of delusions and other signs of irrational thinking
• Absence of nervousness or psychoneurotic manifestations
• Unreliability
• Untruthfulness and insincerity
• Lack of remorse and shame
• Inadequately motivated antisocial behavior
• Poor judgment and failure to learn by experience
• Pathologic egocentricity and incapacity for love
• General poverty in major affective reactions
• Specific loss of insight
• Unresponsiveness in general interpersonal relations
• Fantastic and uninviting behavior with drink and sometimes without
• Suicide threats rarely carried out
• Sex life impersonal, trivial, and poorly integrated
• Failure to follow any life plan.

And here is some information from the Hare checklist:

PCL-R items

The following findings are for research purposes only, and are not used in clinical diagnosis. These items cover the affective, interpersonal, and behavioral features. Each item is rated on a score from zero to two. The sum total determines the extent of a person’s psychopathy.

Factor 1

Aggressive narcissism

Glibness/superficial charm

Grandiose sense of self-worth

Pathological lying

Cunning/manipulative

Lack of remorse or guilt

Emotionally shallow

Callous/lack of empathy

Failure to accept responsibility for own actions

Factor 2

Socially deviant lifestyle

Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom

Parasitic lifestyle

Poor behavioral control

Promiscuous sexual behavior

Lack of realistic, long-term goals

Impulsiveness

Irresponsibility

Juvenile delinquency

Early behavioral problems

Revocation of conditional release

Traits not correlated with either factor

Many short-term marital relationships

Criminal versatility

One thing we can say about Casey Anthony is that she is a compulsive liar. Here is one story about her continued insistence that she dropped her daughter off a the nanny’s even after the police were aware that it was a lie:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/02/us-crime-anthony-idUSTRE75162O20110602

Accused child killer Casey Anthony insisted that her daughter Caylee was kidnapped by a nanny, even after admitting to detectives that everything else she had told them was a lie, according to a taped interview played for jurors Thursday.

“I dropped her off at the (nanny’s) apartment,” Casey told detectives on July 16, 2008 in a tense exchange about her 2-year-old daughter.

“No you didn’t,” a detective responded.

“That’s exactly where I dropped her off,” Casey said.

“No you didn’t. And who did you drop her off with?” the detective asked.

“I dropped her off with Zenaida,” Casey said.

“No you didn’t,” the detective said.

By then, Detective Yuri Melich testified, he knew the apartment identified by Casey had been vacant for months and no one named Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez had ever lived in the apartment complex. Many other details provided by Casey about Caylee’s disappearance had not panned out, he said.

And here is some information from ABC News about Casey Anthony’s “top ten lies”:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/casey-anthony-top-ten-lies/story?id=13742643

• Casey Anthony told police that she spoke to her daughter Caylee on July 15, 2008, the day Caylee was reported missing. She told police Caylee said, “Hi, mommy” and told her a story about her shoes and a book she was reading. “She was excited to talk to me,” Casey Anthony told police. Caylee was already dead.
• She said she had a job as an event planner at Universal Studios. She even led police to a building on the Universal lot and down a hallway until she finally turned to them and admitted she didn’t work there.
• She claimed the babysitter was a former girlfriend of Jeffrey Hopkins, and that Hopkins was also a one time boyfriend of hers. She told her mother, Cindy Casey, that Hopkins had a toddler named Zachary. She had a picture of a man and a boy on her cell phone identified as Hopkins and filed under “boyfriend,” her mother told the court. Hopkins testified that he attended middle school with Anthony. Hopkins said he has no child and never met anyone named Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez.
• Casey Anthony described how Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez lived in one neighborhood for several months and then moved to another location. Her story of the babysitter’s move was complete with a description of the apartment’s interior.
• She claimed her friend and co-worker at Universal Studios was named Juliette Lewis. Casey and her mother, Cindy, went to help Lewis with a fundraiser, but after waiting for about 90 minutes, Lewis didn’t show up, Cindy Casey testified. Universal had said that no one named Juliette Lewis worked there.
• Casey Anthony told her mother that the father of Caylee was a man named Eric Baker. She later called home frantically to tell her mother that Eric Baker had been killed in a car crash. Anthony even told detectives she had Baker’s obituary to prove Caylee’s father was dead. It’s never been confirmed Baker is the father of Caylee and it’s still unclear the paternity of Caylee.
• Hopkins’ mother was named Jules and she had cancer. Cindy Anthony even baked a cake for a Christmas season meeting with Hopkins and his mother, but the meeting was cancelled at the last minute.
• Casey Anthony told her mother that she was in Jacksonville and was going to stay longer to attend Jules’ wedding. She was actually staying at the home of her boyfriend Tony Lazzarro and another friend’s apartment in Orlando.
• Casey Anthony told her mother at different times during the month that the girl was missing that Caylee was at Disney World, was at Sea World, was at Universal Studios. Caylee was already dead.
• “I don’t know where she is and that is the God’s honest truth,” Casey Anthony told police on July 16, 2008.

It seems if anyone doesn’t know the “God’s honest truth” is Casey Anthony. Guess we’ll see what happens in her trial.

Here’s my book about BPD:

When Hope is Not Enough
Get the Non-BPD book that is designed for
staying and working on the relationship

Here are some good books about psychopaths:

Without Conscience: The Disturbing World of the Psychopaths Among Us

The Psychopath Test: A Journey Through the Madness Industry

The Psychopath: Emotion and the Brain

Handbook of Psychopathy

The Mask of Sanity (Mosby medical library)

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2. Understanding Borderline Personality Disorder from WHYY
3. BPD Myth Busting: 7 common myths about Borderline Personality Disorder

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1.    When it is more painful to admit or tell the truth.
2.    When she wants the other person to think “better” of her than she thinks of herself.
3.    To avoid the judgment of the other person or judgment of herself.
4.    When she can’t see the “truth” because of emotional reasoning brought on by the refractory period of the emotion felt. In other words, when feelings = facts.

The first three of these factors play a role in the lies of someone with BPD and they are often inter-related. If the person to whom the lie is told is likely to judge the person with BPD as “bad” or “deficient,” the expectation of disapproval triggers first rejection sensitivity and then shame, because the person with BPD actually feels deep inside that, if she admits the truth, the other person will “find out” that she is a “bad person” and reject her fully. The last motivation is “emotional reasoning.”

I bring up these motivations not to “let liars off the hook” but to point out something: a person with BPD does not live in the same “reality” as you (the Non) do. Your truth is informed by what you see, hear, experience and what you believe about those inputs. A person with BPD is most often informed by her feelings about the experiences. These feelings can be misaligned with the facts and, as Paul Ekman notes in Emotions Revealed, a person overcome with strong emotions “cannot incorporate information that does not fit, maintain or justify the emotion.” In effect the original lies can be motivated by the inability to see information that doesn’t support the feelings. When someone is emotionally dysregulated, she just can’t see the truth if it doesn’t match what she is feeling.

In effect, she is not really “lying,” but merely pointing out “facts” (or generating them) that support her overwhelming emotion about the situation. The subsequent lies, which are used to “cover up” or support the emotional reasoning, are typically done for one of the first three motivations, particularly the idea that you would think of her as less of a person (and deservedly so) if it was revealed that she lied in the first place. I think there can be some argument about whether deep-down a person with BPD really believes the original lie (or any of those generated by motivation number four) when she exits the prolonged refractory period. My suspicion is that deep down a person with BPD is more concerned with the pain and shame the revelation of the lie will cause her than with repairing, rather than repeating, the lie.

When Hope is Not Enough
Get the Non-BPD book that is designed for
staying and working on the relationship

While it is useful to know the motivations behind the lies, it still doesn’t make the lies any less hurtful. Being lied to is a painful and hateful experience for the Non. It destroys trust and personal integrity and leads to suspicion and paranoia. When someone specifically lies to you (by admission) or is secretive (by omission), you end up feeling angry, saddened and disconnected from your loved one with BPD. It is a confusing, embarrassing and painful experience.

Each of the motivations can be removed by:
Number 1: Pain management, distress tolerance (when the pain can’t be removed) and self-soothing
Number 2: Self-acceptance*
Number 3: Self-acceptance and developing the ability to tolerate judgment
Number 4: Emotional modulation

* a quick note on Number 2. I have known at least 3 borderlines rather well in my life. I have also known about 3 more peripherally (and of the 6 – not including my wife – 5 are female). But the 3 that I have known well (2 women and 1 man), ALL of them used motivation #2 to generate seemingly outlandish lies. Sometimes, each of them would have to “own up” to the lies and that was a painful experience I’m sure. I know if I every have to own up to lies, it is painful for me. I can only imagine how painful it is for someone with as much shame as a borderline feels.

Related posts:

1. BPD and Lying
2. BPD, lying and the nature of truth
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I also found an article called “Spiritual Glasses to Understand the Difficult Child” which was described with the question: When you get frustrated with your child, what is the most effective discipline? I was intrigued and decided to read the article.

I have to say, I was surprised by the wisdom in some of her comments. I find it interesting that what she says about children can be applied directly to people with BPD. Consider the following:

If your child is a chronic liar, parents worry and panic. The spiritual glasses allow you to see a very insecure child with poor self concept or image. Are your expectations of him too high? Why does he feel worthless? Is he bullied around by friends or older siblings?

I get more searches on this blog for “lying,” “liars,” “chronic liars,” etc. than about anything else. (Actually to be honest the most searches I get are about “celebrities with BPD” or some variant of that, but lying-related searches come in a close second.) I’d like to take her words and apply them to BPD and replace the words “spiritual glasses” with “emotional glasses.” I think if you look at a chronic liar, which many people with BPD are, you will find that one motivation for lying is a poor self image, feeling worthless or insecurity. These concepts are interrelated and spring from shame. People with BPD do have a poor self-image. Even though many nons report that their loved one with BPD is selfish or narcissistic, in reality people with BPD actually hate themselves. This feeling arises from shame as well, but the shame also arises from emotional invalidation. Mrs. Treasures doesn’t really provide a prescription for dealing with a liar, other than not to label (judge) the child as a “difficult child” right away and try to understand them and set proper expectations. The same can be said of a non’s relationship with a BP. Judging their behavior as “difficult” right away or setting expectations too high can invalidate the BP’s emotional responses. This sets up an “invalidating environment” for the child’s emotions and the effects of an invalidating environment are summarized by Dr. Marsha Linehan:

[The] effect of an invalidating environment, especially when basic emotions such as fear, anger, and sadness are invalidated, is that a person in such an environment does not learn when to trust her own emotional responses as valid reflections of individual and situational events. Thus, she is unable to validate and trust herself… If communication of negative emotions is punished, as it often is in invalidating environment, then a response of shame follows experiencing the intense emotion in the first place and expressing it publicly in the second.[i]

If a person is unable to trust herself, she can not validate herself and a “response of shame follows” emotional experiences. That is one pathway to BPD. If you punish a child for feeling inadequate, for example, if the child is lying to you because he wants to make himself feel better about himself, then you are invalidating his emotional responses.

Mrs. Treasures also say this about temper tantrums:

For your younger children showing tantrums and hitting other siblings, the spiritual glasses permit you to see a child struggling to deal with his immature emotions. The child’s frustration is his inability to communicate his feelings and needs to his siblings.

Again, if we substitute “emotional glasses” for “spiritual glasses” and “BP” for “child,” I believe she is accurately describing the state of someone with BPD. People with BPD are emotionally immature. It’s not their fault; it’s just that they were not raised in an emotionally supportive environment. They feel that by feeling emotions intensely, they are wrong and should be punished. Again, the shame comes into play. They do have an “inability to communicate [their] feelings.” Because of the invalidating environment, the BP becomes unable to trust her own emotions and becomes frustrated and angry. THAT is what fuels rage more than anything.

OK, now what do you do to counter-act an invalidating environment (with both children and BPs)? You learn to validate their emotional responses. I have quite a few examples of validation techniques on this site and if you follow this link, you can read about validation.

[i] Linehan, Marsha, Cognitive-Behavioral Treatment of Borderline Personality Disorder, pg 72

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But I regret to have to say I cannot say the same about the wife’s evidence. Having watched and listened to her give evidence, having studied the documents, and having given in her favour every allowance for the enormous strain she must have been under (and in conducting her own case) I am driven to the conclusion that much of her evidence, both written and oral, was not just inconsistent and inaccurate but also less than candid. Overall she was a less than impressive witness.
….

The proposed Amended Petition alleged a number of matters against the wife of verbal abuse, extreme jealousy, false accusations of violence, and that throughout the marriage the wife had shown a consistent inability to tell the truth.
….

I assume for the purpose of this judgment only that in those interviews the wife lost her cool completely, went right over the top, and behaved in an erratic, out of control, and vengeful manner.

Ouch! OK, I took them out of context, but still – ouch!

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Lying

One of the most searched-upon subjects in this blog (and talked about in our ATSTP Google Group) is the subject of lying by someone with BPD. The nons are confused by untruthfulness on the part of someone with BPD and wonder how the person with BPD can have any credibility or trustworthiness when, clearly, they continue to tell bold-faced lies. In my response to a recent poster within the ATSTP group, I recently made a new revelation about truthfulness and lying by someone with BPD.

I have long said that someone will lie when telling to truth would cause more emotional suffering than lying would. However, that statement seems to indicate that there is a level of calculation when the lies arise. It infers that someone, when actually telling the lie, is deciding beforehand whether to tell the truth or not. For people with BPD, feelings = facts. It is not the events that matter to them, but how they feel about these events that truly matter.

So, two things have come to mind for me in this regard. One is that the experience of “reality” is filtered through those feelings and the person with BPD will reflect how they feel about them. If they have strong feelings about what has happened, they will actually experience things in a different manner than those of us who are rational in the face of the same events. It can hardly be called a lie in some ways because it is how they experienced reality. I lsitened to an audio CD on Buddhist a while back and there was a statement made that went like this: An artist doesn’t paint a picture and then put his “style” into the painting. He paints the picture through the lens of his style. That is how he or she sees the world. The same seems to be true for people with BPD and their emotions (rather than style).

The second thing that came to mind is the actual telling of the lie to a particular person. If someone with BPD feels that, by telling the truth, his or her feelings will be invalidated and judged by the other person, they will lie either by admission or by omission. If they don’t feel safe sharing the “truth” (and to them the truth is their feelings, not the events/behaviors themselves), they will not trust the other person with their feelings. In order to get a more truthful report from a person with BPD, one has to learn to listen to the feelings and not judge those feelings – which is extremely invalidating to the person with BPD and at the core of their “personhood” (since their feelings are immediate and strong and block out other more “objective” views of the situation). If you can listen to the feelings and validate those (for feelings are not right or wrong, they just ARE), I suspect you will get much more truth out of a person with BPD. But the truth you will receive is the truth for them, which is, of course, their feelings about an event. Still, once you start actually hearing and validating these, the level of trust accorded to you by the person with BPD will go up measurably.

Related posts:

1. BPD and Lying
2. BPD and Lying – again…
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As for lying, I believe that all people lie (or are willing to lie) when the truth is too painful to be told – even if that feeling of pain is not based in reality. Do BPs lie more than other people? My short answer is “Yes”.

I think the main reason is because of the intense sense of shame that they feel. I have come to realize that shame is the core emotional component of BPD. I have also come to realize that many people mistake PTSD for BPD (although BOTH can be part of the mix,my wife has both components). In PTSD FEAR is the key emotional component. In depression, it is sadness. In Intermittent Explosive Disorder it is anger.

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BPD is a “personality” disorder because shame is not a “primal”emotion – like fear, anger, joy, sadness, disgust and contempt. No,shame is an emotion evoked in relationship to other people’s senseof judgment. You can’t feel shameful without a sense that what you’re doing (or, in the case of BPD, what you ARE) is “wrong”.

All people have different capabilities for handling emotions. BPs seem to have a diminished capacity for handling theirs – and, since shame is key, they are more likely to “hide” the truth (even from themselves). In the case of lies, if they feel that the truth would reveal something shameful, they lie IMO. In the case of my wife, she lies if she feels that she will be judged for telling the truth.That is where the shame component arises. If she feels that I (or anyone) will judge her behavior (really, her feelings) as “wrong”or “bad”, she will likely lie, either by admission (actually sayingsomething that is not true) or omission (leaving out the truth). The deal seems to be that she feels the shame in telling the truth, that shame is painful (as it is for everyone) and to avoid that pain, she lies. In other words, her lies are all about protecting herself frompain and judgment (even self-judgment) and have nothing to do with me. It is not personal.

If avoidance of pain is considered “disassociation” (which in some cases avoidance of intense pain DOES cause real disassociation),then I think you could say that she “disassociates” from the painful truth.

On a final note, I also believe that this shame-sense is misplaced.They have nothing to FEEL ashamed of – sure, they do all kinds of “shameful” things, but only in relation to other people. If my wife cuts herself, she does so without shame and not to get other people’s attention. Still, at the core of her being is a sense ofshame – like she has a deep, dark secret she must protect – even though there’s no real secret there. I suspect this comes from the BP’s shaky sense of self. She will do anything (including lie) to protect what’s not even there.

Related posts:

1. BPD, lying and the nature of truth
2. BPD and Lying – again…
3. Why Shame is Corrosive in a BP/Non-BP relationship

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This was my response on WTO to a woman who was very angry with her daughter for lying to her and for having friends over to her (the mother’s) house all night when the mother specifically prohibited it. The mother felt very manipulated and angry – she felt the daughter was disobeying her to hurt her. FYI, the daughter is 23 and was diagnosed with BPD when she was about 16.

Hi. Yes, I thought that your daughter was in a situation like that – around 21-25, diagnosed with BPD and once in a residential facility. The reason I asked those specific questions is that I have seen other young women in the exact situation as your daughter and acting exactly the same way. I could further speculate that your daughter has trouble keeping a job (even a very menial one), has difficulty getting up in the morning, smokes (or once did) or does (or did) rely on drugs or alcohol, etc. – typical BP behavior for young women her age.

I think I can help explain the motivation behind her actions. After you read this you can choose to believe me or not, but these comments are based on my experience with several BPs from a support group (a physical one) that I attended. I met many parents of BP daughters and spoke with them about their daughters behaviors and, after several weeks, their feelings. It took some time to see through the behaviors to the feelings. What I am giving you here is sort of a “short cut” to the underlying feelings of your BP daughter. It may be hard to believe at first, but I would encourage you to consider it carefully.

First of all, it totally stinks to have your daughter not heed your requests. It’s got to be extrememly frustrating to have a daughter who seems to sepcifically disobey you and lie to you on a daily basis. It also must be infuriating to see her “buffalo” the doctors that she goes to see.

However, I think I can explain all of that. I have found that BPs pretty much all feel the same way inside. So, I am going to speculate that the reason that your daughter lies to you and disobeys you to have her friends over is twofold (but inter-related):

1) She is too ashamed of herself to say “no” to her friends. She doesn’t want them to know that she’s “crazy”. She feels that the consequences with her friends to say “no” to them are greater than the consequences she will incur by lying to you. Meaning, her lying is not specifically to hurt you (although it DOES hurt you a lot, as I can see); instead, her lying is about her feelings of shame and her inability to say “no” to her friends because of it. It is VERY common for BPs to overcommit themselves to other people because they are desperately seeking approval from their peers. They feel that to be a good friend (and, for them, a good person), they have to give everything to their friends (at first). When this doesn’t make them feel any better inside, they withdrawl suddenly from friendships in anger – they split the friends black. But ultimately this behavior of valuation and devaluation is rooted in their inner shame about who they are. Why do they feel that way? Well, that could lead to a much longer discussion, but let’s just say that they ALL DO.

2) At 23, she is desperate to be “normal” and not be “crazy”. The stint in the in patient facility and the diagnosis of BPD has put a big red “C” (for crazy) across her chest. She’s terribly afraid that her friends will see that she is crazy and will run away from her (fear of abandonment). This fear is also rooted in shame. She is ashamed that she is not just a normal young woman like all of her peers. She’s 23, so she thinks “isn’t it ‘normal’ to be able to have friends over to your house all night?” The problem is she doesn’t know how it actually feels to be normal. And that she is not normal enough to have her own place yet (that probably also deeply embarrasses her). She has always (I suspect from when she was a little girl) felt uneasy about her feelings – she has always felt weird and broken inside. She is ashamed of that feeling, because it is not normal. She probably constantly worries about not being normal, about being broken. And then she worries about worrying too much and on and on. They (the BPs) all feel this way too. So she is fighting not really against you specifically, but against her own feelings of being not normal, of being crazy.

Anyway, I understand why you would feel that her actions are specifically designed to hurt you. She “buffalos” the doctors for the same reason. She is ashamed to admit to herself that she’s “crazy” in any way – although deep down she’s always known that she is “different” or “weird inside”. I have verfied these feelings with many different borderline teens, young adults and adults (including my wife and my “pre-BPD” daughter). I used to think that there was malice involved in their actions, but now I believe their actions are sad attempts to try and fill that deep sense of emptiness that they have inside them. They really don’t consider how their actions effect you at all. It takes time and learning before they can see that.

OK, I don’t know if I’m right on the money as far as the daughter is concerned. But feel free to comment if you think I am or am not.

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Well, folks, I was wrong. This book is about nons and ways for the nons to handle the BP’s behavior. Unfortunately, for the BPs, it does nothing to help them heal. In fact, the idea of setting limits and boundaries for BPs only serves to pissd them off more. Let me tell you why:

BPD is a disorder in which the sufferer feels emotions more strongly that a normal person.

When they are in the throes of a deep feeling, they cannot think logically. The limit that you set merely acts as a judgement of their behavior and boundary to be stepped over. They need to feel that they are OK. They live in a state of shame. If you tell them, through boundaries, that they are not OK, the message merely serves to fuel the deeply-felt emotion of shame. The behavior will get worse and you will get even angrier. This cycle of shame-anger between you and the BP serves to make you feel even more like leaving, like they can’t be “cured” and distances you from them even more. That is the real BP “dance” or “merry-go-round”.

When talking recently to the BP in my life, she had been reading a post on the Internet about “boundaries” and “limits” when dealing with borderlines. The post said this man’s ex-wife was a borderline – a nigtmare and a total abuser of him and the relationship. So, he left her. I wonder how that made her feel? Shamed further, perhaps?

I’m not saying that everyone should stay with their BP partner. What I am saying is: if you decide to stay, you should help that person heal, rather than set limits, sign contracts, be angry, etc.

Remember, borderlines suffer a lot of internal pain. All day, everyday. And they will do anything to stop the pain, including cutting, starving, raging, spending and attempting suicide.

Buy the book that can make your relationship last and grow:

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